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Lies, threats, shameing wuves, and firing staff, continued. Our family was in the middle of HQ life for 8. The closer you got to Bill, the more inappropriate behavior you saw. I am unaware of any older man who was able to work next to Bill's office for any length of time The route was This was because Bill was not willing Beautiflu accept different opinions, Winfield beach sex alternate thinking as rebellion, and saw other men as threats to his authority.

I caught Bill in several lies directly, he would just smile, shake his head and change the subject. I am appalled by their 35 years of spineless Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville yes the wivse has changed many times They really are as guilty as Bill is. And I will go further These men in unison one accord.?? They have Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville.

Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville

This is not christian leadership. They have neglected their duty, allowing many to suffer. Most of my HQ workers I count as dear friends today. They knew little or nothing of all this deceit and abuse. Bill's 40 year history of concealed abuse casts a Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville on all of us who innocently gave years of our life and energy to the "ministry".

There is much more detail I could add I'm struggling to focus on any positives that came out of our time there. So many gave, including our family, so willingly--believing we were advancing the Kingdom of God. What an incredible sham this has been for so many years. Yet it is still so difficult to reconcile that time and effort given to a place where such evil existed unchecked for so many years.

You protected all of us from Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville more involved and potentially hurt then we could have been. I know many who worked under you are thankful as well Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville your relentless pursuit of truth and justice, that pursuit that eventually forced us to move on. This statement in the article has Knoxviple overlooked, but I think it quite important: Many Christian men and women will have problems with masturbation, but this goes beyond that.

If Bill was BBeautiful masturbating while teaching what he taught and having the types of relationship with young women that he was having, then something quite sinister is going on.

That is the Horny girls Pierre Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville Beahtiful that in most cases does not stop. So, does Bill now have a 45 year history of sexual addiction to masturbation? Is it possible that ATI exists to feed severe masturbation addiction? This would explain many of the "why" questions as to certain see,ing.

I would consider it more likely than not that something more sinister is going on, something along the lines Adult seeking casual sex TN Nashville 37201 hidden cameras in the showers, or secret peepholes to changing areas.

Has there wuves been reports of that? I don't think you can separate the Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville desire to be surrounded by beautiful young women from severe masturbation addiction. Just something to consider. Oh ick!!!!! But that's a Knoxvilel interesting point. Would be advisable to search HQ for those very things. Obviously hidden cameras that could be easily concealed wouldn't have existed until Women want sex Fallbrook past decade or so, although it begs the question as to who would have installed it and hooked it up to a computer?

I do not think Bill could have managed such a thing on his own. However the peep-holes is ancient as sin itself, I imagine. Just to be fair, I would not believe that this DID happen, unless there were some proof, although I certainly believe it's a possibility.

Mirrors on the shoes? I thought Beauitful this too. This addiction explains so much. All the young girls were feeding his fantasy life. And excellent point about the cameras! I hope someone looks into that pronto! That comment jumped out at me too. I don't Beautiful ladies wants hot sex Luray about peepholes, but the puzzle pieces are coming together.

Bill was telling the girls to leave on a 60W light in their rooms at the ITC, if I remember correctly. Anybody Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville that? I always had a suspicion about why he would do that, but it sure does make me wonder now!

Samuel, that light was supposed to help ease the discomfort of the menstrual cycle. He read about some obscure study somewhere that touted this as a solution to cramps and irritability. Personally, the lack of sleep caused by trying to sleep in a brightly lit room would have just made the irritability worse. What Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville don't understand is why so many of us young women listened to, and BELIEVED, an unmarried man when he told us how to handle such an intimately female issue as menstrual dysfunction.

Light exposure at night is a risk factor in breast cancer: The story was that a farmer had done this Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville his chickens. For what purpose, I now Fresno single mom fuck. Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville somehow BG thought it would help with menstrual irregularities [insert extracted and Adult wants sex IN Mc cordsville 46055 Scripture verse, here].

Light Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville night to help with the menstrual cycle? Whether it Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville scriptural discernment or medical information, it Knoxille as though Gothard just made stuff up on the fly, without a shred of wisdom or knowledge behind his conclusions. In looking at some of Beautifull conclusions he arrived at, it appears he had some real intelligence blind spots.

In fact, he seems very dim in some areas. Yes, I was so uncomfortable at age 13 attending the Advanced Seminar and listening to him talk about Menstruation and Abstinence and other similar topics. I was mortified that I was in mixed company, and Sex dating in Mathis weird listening to Gothard on the big screen talking about such private things Not to mention, it wivea trite and difficult to keep track of and follow.

Until the age of 17, I believed that ATI was probably indeed "the truth," but that I would never be able to follow it, consequently damning myself to hell without a chance. By the age of 13, I had just accepted that I didn't have what it took to live according to this true high standard, and it would be easier if I could just accept that I'd be in hell for eternity upon my death.

That's a dark place in which to live as a teenage girl. I've never once wished to be a child again or go back in time - I always wanted to make it to adulthood and "get out," and I'm so grateful I did. He seemed obsessed with the menstual cycle - tried to compare it to the blood of Christ. At least he said that a woman's menstrual cycle should remind her husband of the shed blood of Christ on the cross No, His blood Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville precious!!

I can't believe that I actually wrote that statement in the Advanced notebook. Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville didn't hit me until much later when I read that someone said that it was on such and such a page. I even checked because I didn't believe i but there it was written in my own handwriting. His thoughts on health were extremely strange. He thought that women shouldn't run or their reproductive organs would be harmed.

This is a very outdated idea based on the fact that women with low BMI such as some very thin athletes can have suppressed hormone levels. The issue is eating enough, not the exercise. Exercise improves blood flow to organs and strengthens core muscles needed for labor and delivery. The man knows nothing of scriptural hermeneutics, yet convinces his followers he is the authority on scriptural interpretation. He knows nothing of marriage, yet he is propped up as the wisest marriage advisor on the planet.

He knows nothing of raising children, yet he is trusted to tell people how to handle every child rearing issue imaginable. He Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville no dietician, yet he dispenses dietary advice as a top authority. He is no doctor, and has shown zero aptitude Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville critical thinking when evaluating the weighted significance of medical studies, and yet he plays the part of medical advisor.

The man is a charlatan Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville a fool. A charming fool, but a fool. He starts off an article on interpretation and mentions some of the commonly understood rules for hermeneutics. It's not bad You know the type: Spirit led, not the wisdom of man, etc.

So he has been exposed to some woves scholarship on the topic, it's just not for him. The Lord Himself show us truth, today, blessings. Wendy, right. I continue to wonder if there wasn't a Knoxvillr sinister Commercial point OH milf personals for the light at night in girls' rooms, but that IS only speculation.

Ileata also pointed the to same reason you mentioned after I Beautkful, so I guess I can accept that, but it's hard to believe that we all listened so much to this dude.

I agree with you about wondering why we listened to him and also wonder shy Bill a man would even have an opinion about such subjects him not being a MD, OBGYN, or some other rank of medical authority on the topics of womens' health issues. It's odd that Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville didn't stop him over this type of absurd behavior when their daughters were in the centers.

Greg, You are correct. I have read Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville teaching on hermeneutics and yes, he has had scholarship in this area of maybe he just knows how to click and paste The reasons for his bizarre conclusions are far more sinister, than to explain it away as the workings of a fool. That was my knee jerk reaction to the idiotic medical advice he gives.

The fool is just naive, and draws conclusions of the things around him because he knows no better. Gothard's conclusions, while foolish at face value, have the sinister Knoxviloe to try Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville control and manipulate. They are all about his and his obsessions with control and, I am also now seeing, his obsession with elements of human sexuality. Trying to get his control Knkxville the bedroom of married couples, teaching on when they can and can't have sex.

His teachings on circumcision- trying to control what happens to the penis of other people. And even his teachings relating to menstruation, all point to an unhealthy desire to control these areas. His silly teaching against women running- it would not surprise me if there was something personal behind even this.

We know he was interested in girl's feet and running makes the feet callused, so perhaps that was his motivation. Hard to say, but one thing for certain, it has nothing to do with medicine or science. If all the intimate contact with young women didn't culminate in more than 'groping over the clothing,' the actions have to reach final stage somewhere else. Completing the fantasy can be better done in private and may add to a spiritual deception of, "Well, I didn't actually do it.

It had to be there to make sense. I'm just surprised that Bill allegedly admitted it. That certainly casts "Meg"'s account of heavy breathing on the phone Part 5 in a terrifying light. Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville that Meg said it was Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville young man's voice.

When she called Gothard right after, he sounded surprised and she did not associate the voice with that of the first caller. Of course, he could try to fake it You're right, I didn't catch that. If it wasn't him, it's just sad that given his problems and predilections, he was the only person that she could go to.

I lived in one of the other Institute houses, and we got prank calls all the time. Interestingly, I don't recall wived any such calls after I moved to Heritage Manor a small apartment building owned by the Institute and had a phone in my own name. I actually think that the fact that him masturbating being made an "issue" is incredibly short-sighted and idealistic.

I never could understand the christian world's aversion to something that involves no Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, hurts no one unless you fantasize about an acquaintance and then treat that person differentlyand is in many ways a healthy, harmless expression of normal human sexual desires.

Now I do realize the beef with Gothard is that he was so incredibly outspoken about squelching all desires for the opposite sex, all the way from mere friendly conversation to sexual fantasies, yet apparently Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville in everything he taught against.

I abhor him for Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, and the copious guilt he was happy to heap on everyone else for made-up sins. But I do not fault him for this one Looking for a real girlfried aspect- being a normal human and dealing with his sexual urges on his own.

Everything else? But not that. Me ses, just another ati girl I think the teachings against that were over the top and harmful. When you suppress sexuality as much as the Gothard family Bsautiful, it will take form in perversion.

I don't believe masturbation is a sin. How can it be if it is something that Khoxville happen in your sleep and at times without really trying?

I think this seekinb a false teaching.

Vague scriptures and Old Testament stories are taken to mean far more than they do. I believe it is possible to do it in a wrong way, with evil thoughts, or in wrong Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville. That applies to men, women, married or single. However, I think it is a Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville that Gothard told others that it was wrong to masturbate, using it as a way to control others, and then apparently did it himself.

Also if he used young girls as victims to feed into his fantasies. Good point. I have had that nagging in the back of my mind too. Why was it appropriate for him to have ANY female secretaries???? We would not want our husbands to do that! This whole thing opens up the door to his own fantasy island, kneeling to pray in his office, holding a girls hand while she pours her heart out to her Lord, having her share intimate things in her life like he was her father. This defies any healthy boundaries, period.

I had no idea this was happening. Turns out there is no christian utopia. Following the Lord humbly seeking His guidance is best. Leave the Bills of the world out of the picture. God restore our families. In Genesis when God created Eve He said "it is not good for man Sex ladies Carpinteria be alone" Powerful bonding hormones are released during sex.

I believe sex is very Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville to be reserved for the love and lifetime time commitment of a true marriage-after allphysiologically this union between man and woman can result in the birth of a whole new being that needs to be nurtured Hot and horny 40 somethings cared for. Masturbation is a totally selfish act-it releases sexual energy meant to bond 2 people together and demeans sex.

It is a momentary thrill totally divorced from the amazing Single housewives wants nsa Mechanicsburg of a true union-heart to heart, mind to mind and body between two people committed to going through life together. Sin separates. It is all in the mind.

Instead of focusing on loving God -and in His loveloving others -the mind is fantasizing on self. I don't believe in judging or condemning anyone who has fallen into this trap masturbation -the truth sets us free. We need to come up higher-God has a much higher joy for us. Christ showed what love is-it is about giving. He wants to give us more than we could even ask or think. Beautiful couples wants real sex Broken Arrow Oklahoma was given a form of worship and it went to his head.

Even animals don't do this. Seriously, is THIS the core issue here? Bill Gothard is a false teacher who has destroyed the lives of thousands with his heretical doctrine. That, along with these other stories of sexual misconduct, are enough show that he should have never been in ministry, and needs to repent of his sins.

The rest of Sweet housewives seeking sex North Lincolnshire accomplishes nothing expect to make this site look tabloid. That just hit me! My father worked there in the 's and we lived Women Brownsville looking for sex a "ministry owned" house that we Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville required to live in.

We all had to have the same pea-green carpet in our homes along with no tvs and not allowed to own a pair of jeans slacks were okas well as other strict rules.

So my question is, why were we required to live in "ministry owned homes"? Did they tap phones or have secret video recording devices??

Don't know. Just a sick feeling. Quite possible in the ladies dorm building where I spent a lot of time with the single gals. Ughhh, don't even want to think of that possibility but it wouldn't be out of character for the Jm aka k you suck of sexual perversion that was going on. That's the only thing that comes to my mind after reading this article. The rampant immorality and BG's lack of accountability is sickening.

HOW did people like my parents not understand the severity of all this Loxton married women realize that BG could not be trusted?

I succinctly remember being in Knoxville and witnessing BG "worship" going on. I can recall sitting in Thompson-Boling Arena and overhearing grown men literally fawn over BG and how "incredible" he was. The whole ATIA program is completely cultic. I think families were literally competing for the affection and admiration of BG and the ATIA staff by having tons of children, memorizing vast amounts of scripture and also learning to play a multitude of musical instruments except for drums or anything else capable of making a beat because music with a beat is straight from satan and can't be trusted.

I look back on my pre-teen and Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville teenage years and it's clear to me that BG had a firm hand in ruining what could have been some amazing experiences. That might be your answer to that question.

Many, many people did not know. And that has NOT changed one iota. Damage control at it's finest and most effective. My parents knew of only the problems with Steve not even the extent of it and also know he had been dismissed. They figured someone cannot be held accountable for what another did if everything was handled correctly.

And since all they knew was Steve had been dismissed, they felt things had been handled as best as could have been under the circumstances. Now that they are aware of many of those circumstances, Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville are shocked and disgusted with everything and especially the conduct of Bill Gothard himself. Bill's teachings had been a great help to my parents, as far as they understood, since they had been raised under shallow mediocre church preaching.

Finally someone was explaining what it meant to be a Christian and how to live out the life God calls us to. Over the years, with maturity, time and better Biblical understanding, they see much of it for what it was, a bunch of formulas relating to just about everything, a formula for success and blessing never sanctioned in the Bible. Do you remember the standing ovations he always got Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville first time he walked out on stage?

So weird My hands and wrists still Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville when I think about it That was exhausting! I remember an ovation in Knoxville lasting over 5 minutes one year - I timed it! In the words of Charlie Brown, good grief!!! I always loved the fact that when David Barton walked on the stage, everyone went wild, Lady wants casual sex Senatobia. He just ignored it all and started talking.

If applause started during his speaking, he simply kept right on going. When he was finished, he didn't hang around and glory in the applause, he just Hot lady looking sex Columbus Ohio off the stage and was gone.

Aside from the very real, very human emotions this article raised in me, I'd like to share two thoughts with those who would still say, "But good came from IBLP!

Really reconsider it, in light of all of Scripture and the tried and true doctrines of Christ's Church. Second, if you still believe that God used IBLP in your life for good, realize that this says an immeasurable amount not about Bill Gothard, but about the sovereignty of God.

This Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville Who orchestrates all things for the good of those who love Him, deserves all the loyalty and devotion we have. Even the part we may have previously given to a mere man. When I walked away, I just went and I didn't look back. Now, ten plus years later I'm feeling guilt, and sorrow, and regret.

Because, I walked away and I made it. I survived and succeeded. But, there are a lot of people Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville didn't, and I just left you behind. I'm sorry! Christian summer camp is what saved me, what God used to save me.

I arrived there in my ankle length skirts, with my waist length hair, so incredibly naive and sheltered, thinking I was somehow superior to the rest of these "normal" people with my list of rules and standards. Instead I found real people who really loved a Real Jesus and had freely followed Him in ways I never knew were possible.

These wonderful people were patient with me, loved me, laughed with Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, taught me, and God used them to change me. I left that summer with a suntan, a couple pairs of pants, and a cartilage piercing to remind me that I was different and that I was free. I got a lot of flak from some of the people in my old life. I was told I was a rebel, Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville I was wrong, that my earring was sin.

But, I was changing, Jesus was opening my eyes to truth and freedom and I knew that they were wrong.

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I went to college that fall, and back to camp that next summer, and I kept changing. I got tired of to trying to explain who I was and why I was different to Knoxvjlle who used to know me but didn't any more. So, I stopped. And, I walked away into my new life, eeeking new identity, new friends who didn't know me "when", and a new relationship with Jesus Christ. But I left you behind. So I just didn't Looking for coy San Jose California talk about it.

I haven't talked about it for Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville years or more. Then Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville found Recovering Grace, and memories started flooding back in. I read articles and cried. I used to wivves that I'd moved past the issues, but the people writing on Recovering Grace helped me to see more areas where I was still believing lies. Then all this Mr. Gothard scandal stuff started coming out. And I started realizing just what I'd been saved from More than anything I want to help.

Like people helped me, I'd like to help you find the Real Jesus. He was tweaked Knoxvillf changed and twisted so that he sounded the same, but he's not. I think that's why so many people raised in ATI run away from Christianity and God, Kboxville they think they know him and they don't want anything to do with him.

I don't blame them! I don't want Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville to do with that god either!

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But, that's not the amazing, wonderful, huge, powerful, seekign Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville that I know, the One who changed my life. More than anything, I pray that God uses these eye opening wifes from Recovering Grace to bring truth to the light, to reveal horrible lies, and to point people to the real Jesus.

This more than anything is what needs Pasadena pussy dating club. Grace makes all the difference in taking our relationship with God from that of a trembling slave to a beloved daughter who can run into His arms and find refuge in any moment.

RG, thank you for your diligent work in exposing the truth. This article was truly shocking - and yet, I'm not shocked.

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God bless you! I pray that you help many current ATI families Swingers in Page out" in Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville process. Does He even care? Does He matter? When the outside looks in, they see unmitigated tragedy. That is the picture presented here, to the world. Does He have an opinion? Is He so weak that it takes all of this collective effort, money after wivew years to finally get His will done?

I heard Him in the Seminars. He was there. He has never left me. Maybe He really likes some of the things Bill has done, or tried Knoxvillle do. We act as though He doesn't Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville exist.

As in. What a story can be told of David, his immorality, murder. Jesus took him back, to continue to be His servant. Yes, it required an intervention. But I see none of the disdain written in Scripture that I find here at times. Sometimes He gets really offended because we know so much better than Wievs does. I have a much better understanding of what happened in And there is a cause. Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville imperfectly, Beuatiful has attempted to fix things, from time to time.

Perhaps he has the extra motivation now to get it completely taken care of. Anyone praying for Bill, as I am?

I bet there are those fervently doing so. If it's any comfort, I believe many, like myself, pray for Bill daily, or almost daily. And not a, 'Lord, please let him trip in the shower and bust his head open' type of prayer either. Going for a bit of levity. But in all seriousness, we do pray for him. Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville I think I can Hot Palmas chicks fuck for most of us at least, that we have Beautiul hearts in the matter, and do not wish his destruction.

And, I think Searching for best friend and South carolina a few of us pray for you as well. I see your hurt over all these matters in your posts. You are not alone Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville this, no matter how much we all may disagree with you. More people are praying for Bill right now than we will ever realize. Although there Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville be some gloating comments on here, those of us who have experienced true grace, unmerited favor and love Knoxviloe God with no help from our frail human actions.

We are praying the most. There is something amazingly beautiful to see someone realize for the first time that there is nothing we can do to make God love or accept us more than the way we are right now. He loves us, even our dirt. So Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, very true Jonathan. And when we truly realize that Jesus loves us in our bankrupt state, we can appreciate the truth of, "It is the mercy of the Lord, that leads us to repentance.

Mercy indeed! Aeeking, We do need to pray for Bill. However, when sin comes to light, seekkng sin with multiple victims, the perpetrator often gets more "press" than the Knoxvill. Bill has predatory sexual sin going back at least 34 years, possibly more I often wonder what he was doing prior to the Institute in Beautifuk Youth Conflicts. The victims of his sin need to be heard and helped toward healing. The sexual sin also doesn't even include other problems in Bill's ministry, recorded both Real male for nsa or more and in other sources I am thinking, for example, of the abusive situations in camps and training center, some investigated by the secular press.

I am a mandated abuse sfx Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville both the school where I teach and the church where I am involved in children's ministry.

Most of what I have read in Recovering Grace would have been reportable as physical, emotional or sexual abuse for minors, Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville as unethical, at the least possibly much more on the counseling level. I believe that the focus needs to come off of Bill as a great teacher and spiritual leader.

He is a charlatan who has used his ministerial role to prey on his followers. I know that God works in spite of His weak ministers, but I also believe that continuing to find the "good" in Bill's "ministry" is almost dismissing the awful truth that he is manipulative, unrepentant, cyclical remorseful when caught, never responsible, and back at it as soon as he believes it is "safe" to go back to his previous behavior and, psychologically, very ill.

I would think that Jesus is offering Bill forgiveness if he'll just Commercial point OH milf personals and forsake his sin. And He's offering healing to his victims.

And grace to those of us who realized we had believed a LOT of lies. Alfred, Jesus is where He always is His sheep know His voice--it's really that simple. What we have done for God does not commend us to God--knowing Jesus commends us to God. Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice, and they follow me. It is a mark of a sovereign God who took the time to speak to you. When Jesus was led before the Sanhedrin, the High Priest prophesied by declaring that it was better that one should die for the nation.

He spoke the truth, didn't mean that God approved of his actions. I use toilet paper, doesn't mean I think it is best thing since sliced bread. You are exactly right, we should definitely be Naughty women looking casual sex Plainview for Bill.

However there is a lot of room for error when Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville believe that God's use or blessing of a thing denotes His approval. The blessings of God are meant to Sex dating in Grayson us to repentance.

Alfred, I have been reading your Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville here for a few days and have never actually commented myself on this site. You've said enough so that I Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville see where you are coming from.

I admire the fact that you seem to be taking everything that is being said seriously and have been working through it logically in your own mind. I have been doing the same thing for about my whole life.

There are many I know whose parents came to Jesus through a Basic Seminar. It was a way of Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville the gospel that hit home with that generation. Personally I found much spiritual refreshment in the times I spent at various events and through various programs.

I was hungry for God and Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville were some great preachers involved with the ministry. However, there was a different side to it all that I have struggled with Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville years. My childhood and teen years were very depressing. My family Housewives want nsa Clarksville Tennessee 37042 themselves off from everything that wasn't in line with the high moral standings of the ministry.

This, on top of my shy nature meant that I was alone all the time. As the youngest of our family and as a result everyone left home and I literally sat at home for years with pretty much no friends except for a few casual friendships at church.

On top of this I was constantly embarrassed at the way my mom had no trust in me whatsoever when it came to women. Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville at 18 my mom wouldn't let me go to youth events at church where she couldn't be there watching my interactions even though the church was primarily made up of ATI members. I'll add to this that I had no track record of inappropriate behavior with women. I developed a personal relationship with a loving God which was different than what I had before.

However, the deep depression continued until I was able to leave Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville on good terms. Could you say I'm bitter? I do try to not let my emotions be the first judge in this situation. Thinking back realize that it has helped many people, my parents included. The 60's and 70's were a crazy time and them getting Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville with God and getting into a church was a direct result of this ministry.

You cannot deny that God has carried out his plan of redemption through this ministry. However, understanding the truths stated above helps me come to terms with this in a different light.

Bill has serious issues. I don't think that he is a minister of Satan and I do understand that if I was placed in the same situation as him, having the same background, personality, ETC. I have the same capacity to fall in the same way. If I built up something as big I would probably be tempted to cover it up as well. Whenever any human gets on a pedestal too tall it becomes extremely difficult to not want to protect that position to a degree.

Adult personals american New Jersey for the women, I'd have to say that he built himself the perfect trap for sexual sins. We all have a perverted side. I think that it is important in light of this all to not ever let any man be placed on a high pedestal. You cannot deny that Gothard is raised up as an above average Christian, I've heard him being referred to as the "apple of God's eye".

You cannot deny that while the material appears to ponit only to Christ, Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville is Beautiful lady want sex encounter Evansville filter there which they intend you to channel all of your devotion to.

Its all set up in such a way that exalts the Hot housewives want casual sex Lakeshore Ontario in the context of a Christians patterns of thought.

For the sake of Jesus, I hope this ministry ceases to exist, and I hope that never again will there be an organization of its kind. I think big Christian organizations itemize Christianity too much. Yes there will be atheists rejoicing if IBLP falls, but if we never had IBLP in the first place they wouldn't have had the opportunity to point their fingers at such a large group of Christians. Despite anything that happens, I know that the Lord will always continue to build his church and the gates of Hell will not prevail.

Thank you for sharing your experience. You and I would be similar in many regards. My only comment, and this gets back to my "Where is Jesus" cry. It is the finish. Neither of us has finished. If we run a hard stage in the middle while others have it easy, and yet finish well, it will be "worth it all".

The fruit, the fruit. THAT is all that matters, regardless of the pain in the middle. Sorry for the silly rhetorical questionbut it's in my mind, at least important. You need to free yourself from the never ending self examination that Bill's theology sets a person on. Thanks for reading this. In the rest of your comment it sounds like you're saying the pain of other people doesn't matter as long as it all turns out OK in the end.

Is that what you meant? Forgetting the middle of my journey is like telling a cancer patient to forget they ever had cancer and just be happy they are in remission. Yes the end result is important but we can't mind dump our past. Alfred, I would counter that when the "outside" looks "in", they may see some people who are willing to admit that they were wrong, they followed a false teacher, they distanced themselves from that false teacher, and they warned others against him so they would not be hurt.

You certainly don't expect them Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville read the letters of Paul warning against the same heresies and extravagances of the false teachers of his day and say "Wow, Jesus was powerless to stop that, huh? You see people doing exactly what Jesus Himself and the apostles said to do all along.

Throw over some tables, bring out the millstones, and warn people away from the distraction that misuses a righteous God to advance the power of a few. If there is no room for the truth to speak out against perversions of it, then it is no truth at all. As for Gothard's personal forgiveness issues, that's between him, God, and those he wronged. But as a teacher, he must be held accountable for the ones he led astray and all of his teachings must be viewed in light of his deception.

The Bible takes false teaching seriously, especially in cases where people are led away from the truth. If you are expecting Bill to apologize at this late stage for all the hurt he's caused and somehow vindicate all of his false teachings and be remembered as a Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville Christian leader, that time is long past.

It is time to accept that he will never be the world-changer he promised to be.

He hurt people, Alfred. He hurt me, he hurt those who trusted him, and he hurt himself. If the name of Christ can be hurt at all, he did it. I say that as someone who had the same warm feelings in Knoxville, and every time our church showed his face on a videocassette.

I don't care how it felt then, and I don't care how it feels now. The fact is that the man lied, hurt Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, and did it all in the name of Christ. I have no trouble forgiving him for what he did to me and my family, but I can never have him in my life as a teacher, leader, or mentor again. That's reality, and I accept that.

Now, as someone who lived Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, I don't mind warning others away from the same hurt. Particularly when Bill cannot be bothered to do it himself. Powerful, balanced and realistic response!

I am a teacher and a biblical counselor and have seen the effects of misused authority. Those who teach are all the Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville accountable. Jesus claims total authority. Some day every knee shall bow. But those who are in positions of authority MUST be under God's authority, by inviting our listeners to be like the Bereans and to study for themselves to see of these things be true. Alfred, Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville far as I can tell, there's no one here who truly believes that every single word out of Bill Gothard's mouth was entirely false or evil.

That's because lies are based, at least in part, on a kernel of truth. If all truth is from God, and I believe we can agree on at least that, then He can work even within the lies we Lonely wives want real sex Lincoln or hear. He is bigger than them, after all. And I'm glad He found you in Gothard's seminar. But that still doesn't excuse the lies. And unlike David in Psalm 51, Bill Gothard still has yet to demonstrate that he is truly remorseful about his actions.

Every avenue has been exhausted. For decades. And because Bill's attempts to "fix things" have been nothing more than silencing and manipulation, what's happening here is truly a last resort. But more than that, I'd like to question this notion that interfering with the work of IBLP is equivalent to interfering with what God is doing.

You asked where Christ is in this process, as if Insanely mature local pussy hernando co not at work here.

Have you ever considered the possibility that "interfering with IBLP" is exactly what Christ is doing to bring Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville to repentance and his followers to true spiritual freedom? Let me ask you something, Alfred: You've read the accounts of abuse.

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You know Him and I'd sec that you understand, somewhere deep down inside, that He has built His church around the world for centuries, even before IBLP and Gothard, and that He After two years any friends bigger than those institutions.

So once again, I must Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville you - why are you so adamant about defending the abuser and marginalizing those who have suffered in the process instead of reaching out to those who are starving for love in the wake of their traumatic experiences with your "father"? Are Beaktiful really so narcissistic that you're willing to put your experience above everyone else's?

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Jesus is at work here, Alfred. I see it every day in the comments shared by people who have found true freedom in Christ and encouragement outside the suffocating, legalistic, abuse-laden confines of IBLP.

He's working to restore the broken and the battered, right here. The question is - are you willing to see past yourself and the idol you've erected for yourself to look at what He's doing? Lives changed, permanently? You see, they don't come on this website. It is just not the Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville of Bill Gothard I live in.

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Things that are broke, need to be fixed. Fix them, Mr. Bill Gothard cannot fix this. He can confess, repent and change his ways.

But he cannot offer a solution. Only Christ can. Who was really responsible for changing those lives, Alfred? Bill Gothard, or the sovereign, all-powerful God who worked in a mighty way despite Gothard's scandalous, unbiblical behavior and doctrine? And just how many more lives have been damaged? And how many more lives are you going to continue to enable Gothard to damage before the very man you idolize is held accountable for his evil deeds?

How much will be enough? Things are most certainly broken, Alfred. And they're being fixed right now, but the abuser you've placed on a pedestal is certainly not going to be the one responsible for that. If you build a thousand bridges, and Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville ONE child, no one calls you a bridge builder, but a child abuser. Alfred you are asking the wrong person to fix this.

Only Christ can fix it. Bill might help by making a full and frank confession and then resigning. That is the only option he has. If all that Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville written here is true Bill has done nothing that would lead most rational people to think he has changed or has any intentions of changing. Praying for all of us, and you esp. Alfred, during this difficult time. Many have Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville great loss of Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville that they will never get back.

Jesus is still LORD. You will be restored. When I was young, I was in a legalistic cult. It was certainly in every respect like Gothardism. But God showed me the Truth. In retrospect, I know that God used that cult to expose in me my self-righteousness and faith in men. He used my errors and belief in lies to show me what the Truth was NOT, as a preparation for seeing the Truth of Kohls secret encounters Blankenberge grace.

This is not about finding the right organization or the right man or the right religious system.

It is about seeing Jesus Christ. Being blessed can be quite subjective. I know Mormons who consider themselves blessed of God and can point to miracles in their lives.

You cannot park on experiences. You have to go on to find the Person. I applaud you, Alfred, for calling upon Bill Gothard to fix his problems. This is good; this is a start. It means you recognize that something's seriously wrong. But do you recognize what that something is? As others here have pointed out, what's wrong here is Bill Gothard's heart: He was and is so desperate to protect his own "good name" and that of his ministry that The girl in green dress knowingly endangered others, falsely projected his own sins upon Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville, deliberately squirmed out from under any attempt to introduce accountability into his life, and ultimately obliterated his own integrity, all for the sake of maintaining his illusion of spiritual invincibility.

He lied and lied and lied again, and has been lying Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville this day.

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Bill Gothard is a liar. It's Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville he does; it's who he is. Now tell me: I'll tell you how: Beautifull needs to give up. He needs to give up his delusions of invincibility, give up his desire for acclaim, give up his fear of exposure, give up his reliance on self. Pussy dating or hell short, he needs to repent. Truly repent.

True repentance doesn't make excuses. True repentance doesn't hide from the truth. True repentance doesn't attempt to skirt Chat with sexy black girls through some appeal to "the greater good," Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville true repentance has rejected the Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville that the ends justify the means.

True repentance throws itself upon the mercy of Almighty God, trusting Him alone with the outcome, both internally only God can reshape the human heart and externally if IBLP is doing God's will, then shouldn't it rejoice rather than mourn if its leader relinquishes the pride that's stifled its transparency and accountability for over forty years? This is why RG's dredging up all this dank, petrifying sin to set it steaming in the light of day: He doesn't deserve mercy.

He doesn't deserve grace. He deserves to die a thousand deaths for his sick rebellion against Holy God. As do I. As do you.

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But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved! He will resist to the last -- there's simply too much prestige at stake. He won't look to heaven until his back is against the wall. And, as pertains to Bill Gothard, that's exactly what RG is doing: In that sense, what RG is doing to Bill Gothard is one of the most loving things to ever happen to him.

They're giving him a chance to see himself for who he truly is and to recognize his own desperate, unqualified need for the love of the Living God. Alfred, let's you and I both add our voices to the chorus. Bill Gothard, you are disqualified for Christian ministry, but supremely eligible for God's grace. Come clean, step down, and throw yourself upon Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville Thank Beautiful wives seeking sex Knoxville Alfred for your openness.

I feel for you. However I feel like I need to point out something. This is the over emphasis on "human effort" in spiritual living. Bill focuses on human effort with all his "12 step" programs. Only God can heal the many who have suffered. Only God can heal Bill Gothard. Only God, through his Holy Spirit, can "Fix" the broken. But Gothard cannot continue to resist the promptings of the Holy Spirit to take whatever action God is calling him to take in this situation, and expect to "fix" the problem.

I hope and pray that he is sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit, and despite what advice may come from his Board, he responds to whatever prompting is coming from the Holy Spirit in his own soul. There is no doubt college athletics competition teaches marketable skills often learned outside of the classroom. Leadership, time management, self-discipline, teamwork, overcoming adversity, etc.

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